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 Post subject: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:15 pm 
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Location: Washington
I didn't see a BoP forum and I didn't want to hijack the other thread :wink:

My question is this. Is there any plan to put out an expansion/module/version of BoP for non-moderns? WW1 or WW2? I was in Naval Aviation for 24 years, so I really get no fun out of moderns, naval or aviation. But I love non-jet age aviation warfare and would love to see an early era game with 3D maneuvering :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:58 am 
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Until Ad Astra gets something together, the Fighting Wings system is wonderful for WWII air combat (and if I'm not mistaken a partial inspiration for BoP, that is at least how I found BoP). The most recent game in the system is called Whistling Death


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:58 am 
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Jeffrey McBeth wrote:
Until Ad Astra gets something together, the Fighting Wings system is wonderful for WWII air combat (and if I'm not mistaken a partial inspiration for BoP, that is at least how I found BoP). The most recent game in the system is called Whistling Death


We would love to do one, but we're waiting to see how BoP sells after the initial sale before working with Tony about farming out the design. (Tony has no real interest in doing a WWII air combat game. WWI air combat games are tricky due to the very low rates of climb and only slightly increased rates of dive...)

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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:02 pm 
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Jeffrey McBeth wrote:
Until Ad Astra gets something together, the Fighting Wings system is wonderful for WWII air combat (and if I'm not mistaken a partial inspiration for BoP, that is at least how I found BoP). The most recent game in the system is called Whistling Death


Thanks for the info. But I have half a dozen 2D fighter games of various descriptions. It was the 3D element that refreshed my interest in them. WW1 is actually the only era that is still interesting to me, but I'd take 3d WW2 is I could get it :wink:

Ken Burnside wrote:
We would love to do one, but we're waiting to see how BoP sells after the initial sale before working with Tony about farming out the design. (Tony has no real interest in doing a WWII air combat game. WWI air combat games are tricky due to the very low rates of climb and only slightly increased rates of dive...)



Fully understand your point but I had to ask. I'm a pretty odd character I guess. I like wargames (ships/aircraft/limited land) from about 1700 (or when the tech becomes available) to about 1950ish. And then future tech scifi. But modern rules? If it is accurate it is ungodly boring or if they pick a 'action slice' it is to unbelievable to be fun (at least for me :wink: )

I may pick up a set of BoP later and write up my own adaptation. I have one advantage you don't......I don't have a need to be accurate, I just have to get close enough for fun :mrgreen:

Maybe something like SS Mode 0....


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:04 pm 
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Maybe you and I have different definitions of Fighting Wings, but I would consider it to be 3D.


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:54 pm 
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Jeffrey McBeth wrote:
Maybe you and I have different definitions of Fighting Wings, but I would consider it to be 3D.


Couldn't find Fighting Wings on CoA's website, but they had Whistling Death. I did find a pic of that and flat map and flat counters usually means 2D. No reviews or descriptions on CoA or otherwise indicate that the game is anything else but 2D.

So I am pretty sure that I am using the standard definitions of both 2D and 3D.

Now if you have some additional information not carried on the makers site or readily available I'd be glad to hear it. But there was no need to get snippy or 'holier than thou' about it…..


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:59 pm 
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Location: Redwood City, CA
Quick start rules for Fighting Wings are available on Boardgamegeek, and they say the game is played in 3D, with altitude recorded on a log sheet.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/downl ... les3.1.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Fighting Wings is 3D in play, but does so in a way that pre-dates the PHAD/AVID, which makes a lot of odd compromises.

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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:48 am 
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If you feel that I was being snippy or holier-than-thou, I'm sorry. That was certainly not my intention.
All of the flight in the Fighting Wings system is in three dimensions.
The game doesn't come with tilt-blocks and minis (although you could play it with them)

If your definition of 3D requires that you use tilt blocks and minis or car antennas to even play the game then no, Fighting Wings isn't 3D.
If your definition of 3D just requires that the planes move in a realistic manner through a three dimensional space, then yes Fighting Wings is 3D.

The best place to get information on the Fighting Wings system is probably from their yahoo group. There is also tons of information and rules available on BoardGameGeek. And actually the first several results on Google have a wealth of information, ADCs, rule books, scenarios, reviews and more (just ignore the Anime ones :) ) Hopefully this points you toward more information without offending you.

This is a forum about Ad Astra's games, though and while I gather that the BoP people and J.D. get along very well and draw inspiration from each other, we have strayed off topic.

In my head, I've always assumed that BoP wouldn't work for WWII just because there is less engine power available to the pilot. I'm sure there are those that would be willing to disabuse me of that impression.


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:36 am 
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
Jeffrey McBeth wrote:

In my head, I've always assumed that BoP wouldn't work for WWII just because there is less engine power available to the pilot. I'm sure there are those that would be willing to disabuse me of that impression.


It would require a different performance and turning nomogram card, for the most part.

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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:13 pm 
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Location: El Segundo, CA
You can adapt the Fighting Wings aircraft performance rules to work with the PHAD (and attendant 3D flight rules) from Birds of Prey. We've done it. You just need to figure out speed changes from altitude changes (you don't want to keep the FW model ...) and remember that one "point" roll in FW is two full PHAD-cells of roll in BoP. OK, "just" isn't the right word, because there's effort involved in coming up with workable gravity effects.

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3-D makes no difference.

No, really.

Stop laughing.


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:09 pm
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Location: Washington
Jeffrey McBeth wrote:
If you feel that I was being snippy or holier-than-thou, I'm sorry. That was certainly not my intention.


It was probably me... reading too much into things... :oops:

I've been doing a lot of stupid things the last few days. Sometimes I wish I could just reboot like my PC.

Sorry about that


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 Post subject: Re: A different 'Bird of Prey' question...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:09 pm
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Location: Washington
Thanks for all the replies. I have been way behind on reading boards the last few days. I'm playing catch up...


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